On May 19, JobStep hosted a panel discussion on how to optimize your resume to get interviews. Our panelists were:
- Nikhil Deshmukh, Co-Founder & CTO of JobStep,
- Kristen Nozaki, a Talent Acquisition Coordinator and JobStep Coach, and
- Nick Martuscelli, a Talent Acquisition Manager at Barstool Sports and JobStep Coach.
We talked about the software that recruiters use to filter resumes, recruiting processes, and what your resume needs to do and look like in order for you to get interviews.
Below we’ve shared some key takeaways and quotes from the webinar.
Key Takeaways and Tips
- An ATS is an Applicant Tracking System. It is a tool that helps recruiters search through and filter candidates and resumes.
- Make sure your resume is both machine and human-readable. Use a PDF format when possible.
- Make sure previous job titles match up to the role you are applying for on your resume and LinkedIn.
- Real people read your resume too, so make it look good. (Use professional fonts.) But don’t use color or fancy designs, because machines often can’t parse those.
- Phone numbers should be in (###) ###-#### format for ATS.
- Avoid using columns in your resume.
- Apply as early as close to the posted date as you possibly can. Don’t wait around debating whether to apply or not. Most likely the answer will be that you should apply.
- Even if the job has been open for a while and you are not sure if you should apply, just apply. Anything can happen.
- Consider every part of the communication with the recruiter as the interview process. (emails, phone calls, etc.) Runner-ups to a job position can get hired down the line sometimes if they left a positive impression.
- Use the links provided in emails from recruiters and coordinators, especially when they ask for your interview availability. It makes it easier for them to find your profile, information, and book your interview.
- Use a company’s careers page to apply for a job that you want instead of using a third-party job board like Indeed.
- There is no way to guarantee that you land an interview, but following these tips will help you land them more often.
What is an ATS and how does it work?
Kristen – “An ATS is short for an Applicant Tracking System. I would consider an ATS as the end all be all command center for all talent acquisition activities, whether it’s one person using the ATS, as is the case for Nick, or bigger teams, with 30+ people. This is where we house all of the applications, the resumes, any notes on your candidacy, any updates on your candidacy, reminders, and for many, it is our interview scheduling tool. It is really the crucial system that is used by recruiters and hiring managers. It’s not necessarily an AI system that’s sorting through resumes.”
Nick – “I’m the only talent acquisition professional in my company that’s dedicated to full-time hiring. Everyone else is either an interviewer or a member of HR. What’s a little bit different is every single job that comes in or gets posted gets done by me and every resume that comes in and interview invite that gets sent out gets scheduled through me.
The managers aren’t really going in there as much. The only thing that they really will do that’s relevant is when they have an interview with someone, they fill out a receipt from what they thought of the interaction, and I’m the one that sees it. It is like a command center. Any of our emails that we’ve sent back and forth are in there. You can go and see a candidate’s profile and see any jobs they’re attached to.”
What happens on the backend of the ATS?
Nikhil – “The first caveat is that all these applicant tracking systems are different, so what I’m describing is generally applicable, but may not be true for any given ATS. The first thing that happens as a job seeker is you fill out an application form, and the ATS is capturing data, such as your name, email, address, phone number. And then usually you’re uploading a resume or copy and pasting in data from your resume about your work experience and your relevant history for the recruiter to take a look at. That’s the first step to how your data gets into an applicant tracking system. Once you hit submit, the data is there, and then the applicant tracking system organizes all the different resumes that come in all the applications. It’s also providing additional tooling.
The ATS allows the recruiter to add notes about your candidacy, prioritize ranking for which applicants might be at the top of the list for an interview. A lot of these tools are enabled by technology. So the technology can actually look through and read your resume and pull out particular keywords that might be relevant to the job. It has search functionality so that the recruiter can go in and look for specific types of skills or specific types of tools that may be necessary for the job. On the backside, it’s really just taking all that data from your application and organizing it and making it searchable.”
As a recruiter, what is your day-to-day like and how does the ATS fit in?
Nick – “The best way to describe it is it depends on the size of the company. At a smaller company, I’ve had the opportunity to manually read through every application that comes through. Because maybe for each opening, we’re only getting 20 to 50 resumes. And the way that works is I press a button that says review resume, then the resumes all pop up in front of me along with any questions that they’ve answered. I then have the option to move forward with other steps, whether that’s a phone screen or a video interview, I can skip it and revisit it at a later date, or I have the option to send them a rejection email, if that’s unfortunately the case.
At a larger company like at my current one, I get about 1,000 to 2,000 applications per opening, so there’s no possible way for me to realistically read through all those. That’s where it is important for the resumes to be preferably in a PDF format, because what happens is I can actually use a Boolean search where I can search for keywords put together in certain phrases. From there, every single resume in our entire ATS that has those keywords within their profile or resume, will get pulled into a list. There are different filters that can be used based on their interaction within the ATS. The use of the ATS differs depending on the size of the company, the amount of roles, and the number of candidates.”
Kristen – “I’m primarily scheduling a lot of interviews, anywhere from 30 to 50 per day. And then I’m also doing a lot of headcount management on the receipt or ticket that comes in for a request to open up a new role, as Nick had mentioned earlier. It comes in waves with scheduling. Usually, if you’re a candidate, you’ll receive an email from the recruiter to submit your availability, and it’s usually a link where you put in your availability and you send it off. Sometimes you’re like, ‘Did this go anywhere?’ Yes, it probably went to me.
Every time you get an email like that, it’s really exciting. Congratulations, you’ve been selected to move on to the next stage of the interview. It always makes the coordinators’ life a lot easier when you fill out your availability or provide information through those links that are provided there because then it’s all housed in the system and you don’t want to miss out on an opportunity just because you responded via email when they are dealing with a bunch of other candidates. Also, a lot of the tips that we’re giving you aren’t going to secure the job for you but will help nudge you especially if you’re the fence.”
What kinds of logic functions can be set? How powerful is it?
Nick – “So with the system I use now called Lever, it’s pretty basic, honestly. I’m still trying to figure out what the best use case for it is. What it can do, as Nikhil said, is if people answer yes or no to certain questions, I can have it move them to a certain step of the process. I guess that’s another interesting part of the ATS. You can imagine it for us as an assembly line. Everybody starts at step one. As people progress through the process, we move you to step two, step three, and so on. I can put in logic where if someone applies, and let’s say, I’m asking, I’m looking for an overnight worker, and for the case of an example, ‘Are you eligible towards the United States? Are you available to work an overnight shift? Do you have experience doing XYZ?’ Yes, yes. Yes. Auto move to step two. And then that way, when I log back in, instead of maybe going to step one, I’ll go to step two, and say, ‘who’s the machine already moved forward for me? Based on their answers to the questions, do their resumes make sense for this role?’ That’s an example of where I do use it a little bit, but again, it’s pretty limited, and it’s completely up to the user. It doesn’t mean that the content of their resume itself is relevant. It just means that they meet the minimum criteria for the role.
What is a Boolean Search and how does it affect my application?
Nick – “It’s sort of like a logic function. If you’ve ever done an ‘if, then’ function in Excel, it’s definitely not as intense as that. We use quotations to be able to find keywords. If I were to search for someone in customer service, I would type in quotations, ‘customer service’ and ‘call center.’ What that is telling the ATS is that it has to find me resumes that have both of those key phrases. Alternatively, if I was open to either one, either customer service or a call center, I can put an ‘or’ function in between them.
So I see resumes where maybe they’ve worked at a call center, maybe they’ve worked in customer support in person somewhere. It’s just a way for us to build really complex ways of doing it. That’s a really simple example. Where it gets more and more complex is if you’re hiring for a position, and you’re really open to a lot of different things. And you can use different synonyms for the same thing. I’ve had them before where the search is 10 lines long with additions such as, or ‘call center’ or ‘customer service’ or ‘support’ or ‘representative.’ There’s different keywords you can input. That’s where a Boolean Search comes in handy. Make sure to have those keywords on your resume and have it be readable.”
Ex: “Customer Service” and “Call Center” or “Customer Service” or “Call Center”
Kristen – “This is where spelling is really, really key. For specific skills, software, or systems that you’re familiar with, make sure you’re spelling them correctly when you input them, because that’s exactly how Nick is typing it into his Boolean search. And if you spell, for example, Excel wrong, your resume is not going to pull up. So just make sure your spelling is correct both on your resume and on your LinkedIn, because a lot of recruiters use the same Boolean function on LinkedIn searches as well.”
How do job descriptions get created and posted?
Kristen – “The process looks different with each company and each ATS. So when we were using our old ATS, I would get an email saying, ‘these are the specs for the roll, please open it up.’ I would enter it into the system, it goes through an approval process to make sure that all the information is correct. It would then post live on our careers page. We switched over to a new ATS a couple months ago, and now it’s a self service model, where the hiring managers are responsible for putting in that information upfront before it goes through an approval process, and then I will post it live. So it’s definitely different at each company with their respective ATS, but I recommend that if you see a posting that you’re interested in, you apply as soon as possible, because really timing is key to everything.”
Nick – “I’ve worked in the past where managers were responsible for filling out a Google form that explains what the role is, who it reports to, what locations are allowed, and what the budget is. Currently, it’s completely up to me to find that information out for myself. So I’m reaching out to the managers and grabbing that information, keeping note of it outside of the system, and then I’m posting the jobs by myself. There is a template within the ATS where it says, ‘What’s the title of your job?’ ‘What are the qualifications?’ ‘What questions need to be required for the person to answer?’ At the bottom, there will be a part that says, ‘Where do you want this job to be posted to?’ And that’s something the backend work that we do when we set up our ATS, we link it to different job boards like Indeed, LinkedIn, Glassdoor, places like that. Usually, we’ll end up selecting all of them to have a post to. If there’s anything I have to change on it, when it’s time to take it down or anything like that, that’s up to me. That all gets done through the ATS as well.”
What is the “blackhole” of the ATS? What is actually happening?
Nikhil – “ I think there are what are called screener questions, and I know some ATS’s will allow you to use those to red flag or automatically reject some candidates, but generally, those questions are basic work authorization questions, location type questions, or even United States work eligibility. If you say no, then your resume will likely get red-flagged or automatically rejected. It’s rarely the case where you will get rejected or red-flagged based on the content of your resume. It’s mostly these screener-type questions that are the cause of it.
You can look at the application form and get a good sense of what the basic or minimum qualifications for that job are. In terms of the historical perspective and how these things have been used, I think there was a time when there was this AI hype, and people were using machine learning and trying to build additional features into the ATS to do matching or to find better candidates. I think this is more widely used now on the sourcing side. When recruiters are actively looking for candidates, they’ll maybe use some of these algorithms to find people with relevant work history. But generally, it’s not used in the ATS. I think there’s a lot of compliance and regulatory reasons why you won’t want to use that. It’s not particularly DEI friendly, so if you’re looking for diverse candidates, you may end up screening people out who you actually want in your pipeline. In terms of how it’s actually implemented, Nick was telling me recently that it’s like setting a bunch of, ‘if, or’ or ‘if, else’ type statements in the interface. You can say, ‘if this person has the keyword I’m looking for, and they’re located in my city, then green flag that resume’ so that I can look at that one first. It’s not just throwing stuff out or automatically rejecting, there’s also green flagging, highlighting, or marking resumes for review that meet particular qualification criteria.
Which ATS do/have you use(d)?
Nick – “I’ve used Jobvite, Greenhouse, and I currently use one called Lever. In the past at an agency, we had one that was a proprietary, in-house one. I don’t remember the name of it, but it was specifically made for that agency.”
Kristen – “I’ve worked with Jobvite before. In my last role, I implemented Greenhouse, and in my current role, I use Workday. But I did want to go back to Nick’s point where he said that a lot of jobs do get posted on other websites like LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, or other really popular ones. If you see a post on Indeed, I recommend that you go to that company’s careers page and apply to their ATS there directly. Sometimes the connection can be broken in between third party job boards and the company that is hiring.”
How do you “hack” Google to find a company’s career page directly?
Nikhil – “Nick is using Lever, so we’ll use that as an example. With Lever, when a company creates a job opening, it gets posted under their company page, Google search will then go and index that job and keep it in their search results. One trick you can do is to search ‘job title, company.’ And then Google lets you specifically search single websites. You can search Lever.co directly. That should take you to the application page for that particular job opening hosted on lever. Similarly, it works for a lot of the other ATS as mentioned. Greenhouse also hosts their own unique web pages for each job. Same with Workday, Taleo, Jobvite, etc.”
Ex: “customer success manager San Francisco site:jobs.lever.co”
Type that into Google, you’ll get a list of all the customer success jobs in San Francisco that are hosted on Lever. Since those are direct links to the application page, you won’t have to use Indeed or LinkedIn to find them.
What happens when someone submits their application to Indeed?
Kristen – “To provide context, Indeed is a third-party job board, you’re not applying for a job at Indeed through Indeed. Usually, you’re applying for a different company through Indeed. What they make money off of is the company’s membership fees, subscription fees, or some kind of account fee, where they will post jobs for a company and help them collect resumes. However, there are a lot of companies that don’t actually have an account with Indeed, and what Indeed will do is something called ‘scraping the job board.’ This means that they’ll search from your career page and post your positions to their website. Let’s say, Eleanor decides to apply to a job at my company. I don’t have an account with Indeed, but Indeed scraped the job board. She will apply on their website, and then Indeed will call me and say, ‘Hey, we have this really great candidate, Eleanor. If you pay for this membership, we can provide her information to you.’ They pretty much hold our candidates hostage that have applied through Indeed. That’s why I always recommend that you use Indeed like a Google search if you’re going to find a role. Once you find a role that you’re interested in applying to, go to the company’s career page rather than apply through Indeed because there’s no way of knowing whether or not they have an account with Indeed or one of those third-party job boards.”
Nick – “I have had subscriptions at most of the companies I’ve worked for. Because we do pay for the ongoing membership, the applications do get sent to us. We can see something where it says the source details, and that’s convenient because we can track where people are finding us from. But I have worked in places where we didn’t have the membership yet, and we would get an email from a masked email where it might say, for example, ‘Hi, I’m Eleanor, here’s my cover letter and resume,’ but it’s from Eleanor1234@indeed.com and we know that’s not an actual applicant. To be safe, a good way to do it is if you are applying through a third-party job board, include your actual contact information. That way, if it is the situation that they don’t have a subscription, they can still see how to contact you best.”
External vs Internal Recruiters? What happens to the resume? How does the process differ for each candidate?
Nick – “For an example, I can use myself right now. I’m a team of one, and we have somewhere around 20 or 30 openings that we really want to fill. In this case, we do engage with some agencies. And what that means is we reach out to people whose full-time job is to work as a recruiter on a case by case basis. We’ll engage with them and say, for example, ‘We’re looking for a customer success manager, here’s everything they need to have, here’s how much we’re willing to pay.’ And they’ll say, ‘We’re willing to do that for you in exchange for 10%, added on to whatever agreed-upon salary.’ What that means, essentially, is if we tell them our budget is $100,000, we agree that we’ll pay them $10,000, a finder’s fee for finding this person. I think a common misconception with this is that people think, ‘If I work with a recruiter, they’re taking money away from me.’ In most cases, if you’re going to be going to work directly for that company, and they actually are trying to probably upsell you and fight for your salary a little bit. What’s different is at an agency, they are working for so many different companies and are working for so many different types of positions. From my experience working in an agency, it means that there are hundreds of recruiters going in there and looking at every single profile, and they’re typically competing with each other for similar roles. I might add a job seeker to my call list, and the guy sitting next to me might call them before I even have a chance to, and so I call you later the same day. It’s very, very fast-paced. There’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen, so to speak. What’s interesting, as well, as it relates to keywording your resume is because we’ve worked on so many positions for so many clients, there are hundreds of thousands of resumes in this database now that are specific to this agency, and you want to make sure that yours is still searchable, and that you’re still able to be found by them. What they’ll do is the agency will give you a call and they’ll say, ‘we have this great job for you that could be a fit.’ If it sounds like it’s something you want to do, they’ll send your resume over to the actual in-house recruiter, me. And I’ll take a look and decide if I want to set up a call with you and introduce you to our interview ecosystem. And the processes are standard from there. We work through your outsourced recruiter for scheduling, your offer letter, things like that. That’s the main difference when you’re working with an agency is that it’s just a much bigger ATS, and there’s typically a lot more people looking at your profile.”
Is it true that external recruiters have a higher bar for sending resumes through?
Nick – “I think there’s some truth to that in the sense that because the company is paying the external recruiter for a service, they’re expecting a higher quality of candidates. If we’re going to pay $10,000 to hire you, you better bring someone who is exactly 10 out of 10 of what we’re looking for, versus if we’re just going to do it ourselves, maybe a 9 out of 10 will be okay and we’re willing to train on that other thing.”
Kristen – “I definitely agree with Nick. There’s a higher caliber that we’re expecting out of agencies just because we’re paying that premium. But also, I did want to mention that when we were using Greenhouse, I was able to set up a separate account for agencies to submit resumes there. What that did was help us not only filter through all those resumes and keep it in one database, but it also identified if that candidate had applied to our company previously by allowing me to search their name and their background as well. That was one feature I really liked about the ATS and how it helps keep down some of our costs through our agencies by flagging us if the candidate was already presented to us or was already in our system before they brought it over. However, I still always recommend going in-house, or going to someone who already works at that company. Because if they can hire you without a premium or a fee, that already gives you a leg up.”
Nick – “I think even right now, if I get a resume, and I think it looks good, I’ll just send a message to the manager and say, ‘look at this nice resume I just got,.’ If I actually am looking proactively and outreaching to people and it’s a really complex role and I’m confused, I can message the manager and say, ‘What exactly do they need to be able to do?’ or ‘What amount of experience do they need?’ An agency recruiter on the outside does not have that level of knowledge. They cannot really get to the manager that easily, and even if they do, it’s rare. They typically maybe get contact once a week in a quick checking-in call. They generally do not really have as much intimate knowledge of what exactly the team is doing or looking for. They might not be able to give you as much insight into what’s going on within the team or what they’re trying to accomplish. They’re realistically just trying to get you in front of the manager.”
How do search and filter processes work in the ATS? What algorithms are in play?
Nikhil – “it’s not just the ATS in a vacuum. It’s the ATS and the users of that system. Those are the recruiters, the hiring managers, the coordinators, everybody involved that’s touching the ATS.
When you’re writing a resume, it has to be both machine readable and human readable. In terms of being machine readable, that means making sure you have the right keywords in your resume. I know that Lever and Greenhouse weigh particular keywords more than other keywords, so if you look at your job titles those ones have more weight in the system than something that’s in a resume bullet point. That weighting changes how your resume shows up in the search results. For example, if you went and typed in ‘customer success’ into one of these systems, and that was in a bullet point, but not in one of your job titles, your resume would show up below someone who had it in their job title. This really means that as a job seeker, making sure your job titles align with the role that you’re looking to do, and not just your resume, but also your LinkedIn profile, because as Kristen and Nick mentioned, they’re looking at your LinkedIn profile as well. In terms of keywords, making sure that the title keywords are the most important ones.
In terms of human readability, humans read very quickly when they’re looking at resumes, generally. I’ve heard anywhere from 30 seconds all the way down to five seconds to skim a resume. People are skimming the parts of the page that are more salient and kind of pop out. That’s the information in the left hand column as well as the first bullet points or the title, so it’s in an ‘F’ or an ‘E’ shape. If there’s an important detail, or if there’s a skill or a particular experience that you’re proud of, you want to make sure that it passes the skim tests so that when you’re skimming your own resume, or you have a friend or partner skim your resume for you, that they’re picking up on those important details.
In summary, it’s really about doing double duty. The resume has to be machine-readable where it has the right keywords to show up in the search results, and it also has to be human-readable, so that the recruiters and the hiring managers can actually make sense of your experiences.
One piece of advice that I’ve heard, that’s actually not very good advice, is to copy keywords in and paste them in in a really tiny font or in white so that it doesn’t show up on the printed page. What happens when that goes through the ATS is it’ll actually just be converted into standard text. This means that whatever you put in there, even if it’s hidden on your screen or if it’s printed out, and you don’t see it, it’s still there as text. And so that’ll be visible to the recruiter, and they’ll know that you’re trying to play these games. I think that’s generally bad advice to copy and paste blocks of keywords or pieces of the job description into the resume.”
Nick – “When I do a search, the way it looks to me is I’ll see a name, I’ll see the job they applied to, and I’ll see a little snippet of where it’s finding the keywords within the resume. It will, when I then click it, act similar to if you do a Ctrl + F or Command + F on Mac, Safari or Chrome, and it’s going to highlight on the page where it’s finding those things for me. If I open up a resume, and it says, this is a 100% match, here’s all your keywords, and magically, all those highlighted words are somewhere in a part of the page that doesn’t actually exist. If I hover over it and highlight, it’s pretty obvious that the person just copied and pasted the job description in there. The fix for this is pretty simple. We have a rejection reason that says ‘spam,’ and then any email or any future resumes coming from that email are automatically rejected.”
Kristen – “I used that spam feature pretty often during my last role. You definitely don’t want to do that and risk being identified as spam. But just to echo Nick and Nikhil’s sentiments, I agree on not doing that. If you’re applying to a role that is similar to what you’re doing or you’re familiar with it, you should already be able to pick up from that job description what’s really important for that role that you’re applying to, integrate that more organically into your resume, and that should do the trick for you. It kind of looks a little skeezy and a little lazy if you’re going to that. If that’s the route you want to take, go for it. We just highly recommend against that.
Would having the same keyword multiple times on your resume help? How helpful would it be to use a job search site like Jobscan?
Nikhil – “In terms of the same keyword multiple times? The answer is that it depends. There are different search algorithms that use different ways of ranking or determining how relevant a particular document is in the search results. How frequently a term appears in that document is one of the commonly used sort of features of a document to rank it higher in search.
At the same time, I talked earlier about how it’s important to have a human readable resume as well. If it’s obvious that you’re just repeating the same keyword over and over for the sake of repeating it, I think that might get you disqualified. It’s this balancing act of yes, it can help in some situations, but it can also hurt you if you overdo it.
In terms of using a website like Jobscan, I think if you just take it at face value, it can be helpful in finding if this job description is looking for these particular keywords, and you’re missing them in your resume, so maybe you want to add that in. In that sense, Jobscan can be very helpful. I think what I see more commonly, though, is that the job descriptions that are out there are either generic or not that great. In fact, if you ask hiring managers, a lot of them don’t even write their own job descriptions, they’re delegated to other people on the team, which means that there’s often some miscommunication or it’s it’s kind of hard to sense what the role actually is based on that description alone. If your data is going into Jobscan, that job description that you’re matching on, which is not a very good job description, then it is not gonna help you at all. I think that’s the biggest caveat with using those tools is that there’s a lot of bad job descriptions out there, and if you’re matching against the bad job description, you’re kind of stuck. I would say to use something like Jobscan with a grain of salt and understand the limitations of a tool like that.
Kristen – “I want to echo Nikhil’s comments on there being a lot of bad job descriptions out there. There are also a lot of bad job titles. For a while they were trying to describe you not as a coordinator or receptionist, but as a ninja. That did not last very long. One thing I did want to point out is that you want to be mindful of the format of your resume as well. Because while a lot of these ATS’s are very robust, sometimes they can error out when parsing your resume, which means that when it’s extracting the information from your resume, sometimes the format will not come through, sometimes it will parse incorrectly. There have been multiple times where I’ve been auditing our system, and I found a resume that is just blank. I know they didn’t send in a blank page, but it’s completely blank. Do you think I have the time to reach out to you and ask for a different form of your resume? No, I’m just gonna skip to the next person. You want to be mindful of your format. Even though you want it to look really good, make sure that it’s simple enough where you think a system could pull all the information over correctly. If it’s too fancy or there’s too many things on it, it’s not going to come through properly and honestly, recruiters are just going to pass on your application just because your resume didn’t come through. They’re not going to take the time to reach out to you and ask you for a different version or for more information when they’re sorting through resumes.
Nick – “PDF is really just the best safest option. You can use a Word doc but if it’s Word 03 vs Word 2016 vs Word 97, it can just come through improperly, even if you thought you aligned it perfectly, but when you upload it into a system, everything is shifted to the right and your spacing gets messed up.
I’m the type of person where I read for content. And I understand that things get messed up. However, there are hiring managers I’ve worked with where they’re like, ‘No, they can’t even make the document look right. Forget it.’ Not at my current company, but in the past, I’ve seen that.
If I look at it and see that it looks weird, I can download it, and it looks a little bit better, so that’s typically the solution for it. I’ve worked places as well where we’re on Macbooks. We don’t even have Word, we use Pages or we use Google Docs for everything. The safest bet is to use PDF. We can’t read JPEGs, we can’t read PNGs with the ATS, or if it does, it just shows up as a picture and it can’t pull any of your information from it. This leaves me with a blank profile with a picture attached to it, so I would have to zoom in and write down what this person’s number is and then call them. Like Kristen said, it’s just more time and more work. You’d have to be a really convincing candidate for me to want to do that. If you fit the role perfectly, then I might. In terms of the keywords as well, it’s the context of how you’re using it. If you’re just using the keyword to use it, then it probably won’t wow anybody. It’ll get your resume read, but if you read the resume and you just see them repeating the words, it won’t help. I think the most important thing to do is, for every job you apply to, look at what they’re asking you for and use those keywords in relation to what they’re asking for in that job.